Waterproofing Paper Mache question.

[hexerei]

I am applying paper mache to two babydolls that I am turning into lab experiments gone wrong. If I spray them with a good coat of primer before painting and lacquer after painting, is that gonna keep them safe enough to submerge them in water? Thanks:undecidekin:

[DeadSpider]

I don't think they would survive long if submerged. Out in the elements a few days, yeah, but not submerged. Mind you, I haven't submerged anything made of mache.

Anyone?

[BobC]

I use the polyurethane in the spray can for my paper mache stuff and as long as it is completely dry I have had no problems weather wise. I think I used Minwax brand. just make sure you try to get a dull finish not glossy. and after it drys I usually go over it again with paint for cover up and to bring any gloss down. hope that helps. :jol:

[DeadSpider]

I use the polyurethane in the spray can for my paper mache stuff and as long as it is completely dry I have had no problems weather wise. I think I used Minwax brand. just make sure you try to get a dull finish not glossy. and after it drys I usually go over it again with paint for cover up and to bring any gloss down. hope that helps. :jol:

even if it is submerged tho? I do similar methods to weatherproof, but i have never tried submerging something in water.

[hexerei]

I know, it is a conundrum....I am rather nervous about it, but if I don't submerge them then whats the point ya know? Thanks a bunch for the comments so far, anybody else got something for me?

* Just want to add that they will not be permanatly submerged...only for the duration of the party. I need them to hold out that long, but still be good for next year.:zombie:

[dave the dead]

perhaps you could use something that only makes them look like they are suspended in water...I know there are products out there used by florists to place arrangements in a vase and have it look like water. Does anyone know the product or something similar?

[hexerei]

what like a goo of sorts? would that be better you think?

[zombieorder]

I ran across this article (http://http://www.papiermache.co.uk/articles/waterproofing-papier-mache/6/) a few days ago... sounds like yacht varnish should work for the duration of your party. If her test subjects survived a year in England, it should work for a few hours in a bowl!

I'm linking to the last page for the list of products and results, but the whole story is kind of cute.

[BobC]

If you need to have it underwater why not just go for a mask grade latex you don't have to use mache. Create the same effect you want even with the same materials but use Latex. I'm sure that should hold no problem.

[hexerei]

latex sounds good. only problem is that : 1. I don't know how, 2. I already completed the mache- they are ready to be primered, 3. I live in Austria, and its not a simple matter to track down things like mask grade latex. Where would I find that here:( ?

I think the boat varnish is the way to go....hopefuly they have it at the hardware store.

Thanks for the help every one!

[DeadSpider]

If you were ABSOLUTELY sure you covered all areas with a boat varnish, it will work, but you'd need to be SURE that not even a tiny spot was left uncovered. Maybe just do one, with many coats and then test it before doing them all.

[hexerei]

It could be a no go on the boat varnish. Looked in to it today....it'll cost me a cool 50€ (that would be close to 75 dollars) a LITER! I can't afford that,but the guy at the paint shop said he would call the head office on monday to see if they could offer me anything else that fits my needs.....the search continues.

[Gothic Nightmare]

Could you try a test? Mache something smaller, spray it with polyurethane, and soak it and see.

[zombieorder]

Yikes! I had no idea it would be that expensive! :eek:

[hexerei]

Chyah....me neither. But I am pretty sure it has to do with my location (again). Where I live only the rich have boats, so I am sure they jack the price way up because of that. In other places...like Venice for example where everybody has a boat, I am sure it is dirt cheap. :-(

Yes I will wait and see what the paint man says on monday, and then I will do a test on something small.

[Spanky]

Whats the prop actually going to be? Maybe there is a cheap water illision you can set up without actually getting them wet.

[Aquayne]

Sounds like you want to win an arguement more than you want actual advice.

I will be amazed if your work lasts submerged. All it takes for total failure is a tiny pin hole. If you plan on throwing them away, OK but not to use next year.
Next time, buy a tube of latex caulking at the hardware store. Dilute it down and use it just as you did the paper mache. Coat with two part epoxy. Nothing else will last under water for several hours.

[Aquayne]

Another option is to simulate being under water. If you plan to display them in tanks like specimens, then take the tank and silicone a pane of glass inside the front. When the space between the actual front glass and the second pane is filled with water, complete with bubbler, the object will appear to be under water.

[Aquayne]

Sorry about the "Winning an arguement" part, it was unfair of me.

[hexerei]

Whats the prop actually going to be? Maybe there is a cheap water illision you can set up without actually getting them wet.
They would be two baby dolls that I have ripped arms and legs off of and paper mached over the holes and added seams to look like they were conjoined twins that I seperated. I also added a few deformities.
I was planning on placing them in big matching vases because they are too big to fit in jars.
I really like the tank idea,Aquayne, but I don't have one, and I have to watch my budget...I will ask around and see if anybody has one lying around for me to use:).
I suppose I could come off as argumenitive with people's advice, but it isn't because I don't appreciate the knowledge people are sharing with me. It really is just the fact that you would be shocked at how hard it is to locate simple items here that you can purchase in any old craft or hardware store there. They don't have places here like Home Depot or Michaels. There are stores where you can buy supplies for building and crafting and such, but the selection is small and the prices are outrageous. And then to make things even more convienient, EVERYTHING is in German. I speak it, but not well and even my boyfriend has a hard time helping me translate to the people exactly what I need. Its crazy how much I have had to search around just to find a black light or maybe some dry ice! Still on the hunt... but no matter, its all gonna work out in the end.
Anyways thanks every one for the tips!:jol:

[hexerei]

Sounds like you want to win an arguement more than you want actual advice.

I will be amazed if your work lasts submerged. All it takes for total failure is a tiny pin hole. If you plan on throwing them away, OK but not to use next year.
Next time, buy a tube of latex caulking at the hardware store. Dilute it down and use it just as you did the paper mache. Coat with two part epoxy. Nothing else will last under water for several hours.

This is really good advice by the way. Do you think its too late to do a coat with that? That might do the trick!

[Spanky]

If you are really set on getting them wet, I think aquayne's idea might still work. The only other thing I could think of is suspending them in your vases with tubes ans wires and such and us dry ice on the bottom to make them look like they are alive but frozen in stasis or something. Sorry I cant help much more. Good luck!

[Lilly]

hex...could you dip them in a wax ,give them a milky bloated look maybe

[Demonique]

I completely understand about the difficulty of getting stuff. I live in a very northwest town called Karratha in Australia, and I just cant find anything that I want. Like Latex...Cant get it.

Try coating the dolls in clear shower sealing goop. You know the silicone stuff that goes in the joins and around the sink to stop water leaking through? If you give it a thoughrouh coating in that you should be right. And though it has a slightly milky look, that should just add to the underwater effect. Plus its fairly inexpensive and easy to find in any hardware or plumbing store.

Good luck!

[hexerei]

Thanks for the comments everybody. When it comes down to it I am too afraid of ruining them to get them wet. I have decided to use spanky's idea, because it sounds cool, and they will stay safe. Pictures will come after everything is finished.:jol:

[Bilbo]

To revive this thread really quickly, how about the old "diving bell" trick. Fill the big container with water, and have a smaller glass container, inverted and filled with air inside it, keeping the dolls dry. The illusion won't be perfect but most glass nearly disappears under water....

anyway, my 2¢