Pneumatics (SP)

[kevin242]

Hey all,
I'm finally going to take the plunge and build something pneumatic, most likely a body slinger. I've been researching it for a while, but I still seem to have more questions than answers at this point. Basically, I'm looking for a site with a simple diagram of a pneumatic system, its components, and their functions. Also, if you know of a place where I can purchase these components for less $$, that would really help!
thanks,

[imax]

I can't offer the much in the way of a site, except for this one:

http://www.phantasmechanics.com/air/index.html

The basics are there.

When looking for equipment, stay the hell away from PVC cylinders. You will regret it. Instead, spend the few bucks on a decent cylinder. They really aren't that expensive (the big ones suitable for haunt use are 50 - $100). The quality, durability, and the fact you won't have to worry about them (except for the occasional oil drop or two) cannot be beat. You don't want to be tearing apart a prop in the middle of the show to fix the cylinder, do you?

The valves are a slightly different story. If you can afford it, I suggest going with a real 5-way valve. Again, these run 50-100 depending upon make, model. They come in all sorts of flavors, from 12VDC solenoids to 120VAC and everything inbetween.

Small valves are cheap. If you have a large cylinder and want your prop to move fast, you need a valve that can handle a large airflow. 1/4" is a great size to get.

If you can't afford the real valves, you can hack one. We've used washing machine valves for years. I hate them, but they do the trick. If you need two-way action (yes, yes, shh...), you will need two valves, OR have gravity/spring/bungee do the reset work for you. I hate these valves because you spend a ton on fittings to adapt them to your cylinder, and they are noisy, and are prone to leak.

People have also used lawn sprinkler system valves, and a wide assortment of other things that are intended for air or liquid.

Now, how you control all this mess is an entirely different subject...

Good luck!

[ScareShack]

kevin,check out
http://209.150.104.225/HalloweenTech/_MainHalloweenTech.html
look around on there theres real great info on what your looking for.

[sgtdrpepper]

I was just about to start something similar adn am looking for sources on the internet besides EBAY to purchase cylinders and valves. This was my issue last year, i would not mind paying for good products but cant seem to find any real sources. Anyone have link?

Thanks
Sgt

[krough]

Everything you could ever need http://www.mcmaster.com/ .
For prop building anyway

[sgtdrpepper]

Krough
Great link, the do seem to have most anything I could dream of.

Thanks
Sgt

[madmax]

If you DON'T shop EBay, you're paying 10x to much money for the Cylinders, Valves, Speed control, fittings and air regulator. The key to shopping on eBay is to be patience. Lately the picking have been slim and the prices a little higher (but still A LOT cheaper than buying new) but you can still find good deals. Maybe not as good as the list below but still great deals over buying somewhere else.

I won 4 Air Regulators on ebay with in the last 6 days. Total cost counting shipping was $13.00 for all 4. Even 4 cheap, not name brand Regulators, like I won would cost at least $50.00 + shipping.

Fittings can add up, fast when you're building a few pop ups. Seven (2 for a cylinder and 5 for a 5 way valve) 1/4 x 1/8 fittings at the link posted above will cost $16.00 + shipping. I got 40 fittings for $35.00 counting S/H on ebay (avg cost .88) I got them at a buy it now cost. You can sometime get them at a lower cost in a auction.

Cylinders, I NEVER pay over 10 bucks for a large air cylinder on Ebay and out of the 50 or so cylinders I bought on Ebay. Most cost less than 5 dollars each. I won a $600.00 (if bought from a company) 48 inch rodless cylinder for a total of $17.00 and 14 of that was shipping. This air cylinder weighs over 40 pounds. I also won a lot of 7, one inch bore with a 18 inch throw for a total of $28.00 counting shipping.

Air valves: I never pay over $5.00 for a 5 way stand alone valve on ebay. I won this lot for less than $15.00 counting shipping.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f117/wkuyoungguns/xvalves001.jpg

[Torgen]

My problem is I wouldn't know what the heck to bid on. I gotta get reading on pneumatics, I guess. *sigh*

[madmax]

On cylinders look for bore (this is how round it is), stroke (the length it will extend to after air is supplied) port size (1/4 is the most common and useful).

On Bimba cylinders the last number will tell you the stroke. Some cylinders (SMC and Festo ) will be listed with the bore and stroke in MM (1"=25.4mm)

On most pop ups you'll need a cylinder that pivots so the cylinder can move as the linkage moves. You can get a cylinder that has one or two ports. One port means it will return by a spring (just like a storm door closer). Two ports cylinders are best. You use air to push and pull the cylinder.

On a one port cylinder you will need a 3 way air valve. This valve will have 3 ports. Air goes in one and out one to the prop (when it's activated) when power is cut air goes out the other port.

On a double acting cylinder (two ports) you will need a 4 or 5 way air valve. Either one will work but I like 5 way valves. You have one port for your air line to enter. On the same side, right next to this port, will be 2 other ports (one on a 4 way) these two ports are exist ports. On the other end of the air valve you'll have 2 ports. One is always open (usually the left port) you run a air line from the fitting on this port to the top port of your air cylinder. The other port is closed (no air get through till the valve is activated) you connect the air line from this port to the bottom port of your air cylinder.

When power is applied one port on the air valve closes and the other one opens. So the cylinder goes up (extends) when the power is cut off that port closes and the other port opens. So the cylinder resets. Air goes out one of the exist ports.

It really isn't that hard, to set up, especially not as difficult as I probably made it sound. When I get the time I will take some video clips of how to hook the air valves up and show what I'm trying to say. Once you do one pop up.........you'll say, what was I thinking, this is easy.

Here's a test of a prop I was making last year. I was using a storm door closer as the air cylinder (I later replaced it with a 9 inch air cylinder). Counting the linkage (a exercice machine $3.00 thrift store) the air valve any the replacement air cylinder, plus fittings. It didn't cost $25.00 to make this and about 2 hours from start to finish. So you don't have to spend a ton of cash to make a air prop.

http://www.hauntpics.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=87&pos=17

I used one 18 inch throw cylinder and a 3 way air valve on my JIB...another 3 hour prop (making the box took 2/3 of that). Again less than 25 dollars to make and the mask was $7.50 of that.
http://www.hauntpics.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=87&pos=8

This one was made by taking two bolts out of this free broken exercice machine and one 18 inch air cylinder. It flys out almost 8 feet in less than a second (the video is just a test) . It cost less than $40.00 and most of that was on the body and the fake skull wall around the base.
http://www.hauntpics.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=87&pos=4
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/wku_hilltopper/zzblackzombie003.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/wku_hilltopper/bones.jpg

This one is another under $25.00 pop up (including mask). One 18 inch air cylinder and one air valve. And a wiper pump to make it spit acid.
http://www.hauntpics.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=87&pos=3

[Zombie-F]

Thanks for the info madmax. This should be a good start for me as far as educating myself goes. It all seems sort of overwhelming at first. :googly:

[Dr Morbius]

Just wanted to say that Madmax is my idol. I saw his stuff at Haloweenforum.com and I gotta say, he is the KING of home animated props! And getting stuff cheap.!

[sgtdrpepper]

After seeing all that MadMax, All I have to say is EBAY HERE I COME.... I am really falling behind this year but I think I have a few more weeks to try to source parts for this year so some time spent waiting for auctions would be worth it. I have always just had a problem finding the right parts. Could be my searching though..:D

[sgtdrpepper]

Does this look promising?
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-SMC-24V-SOLENOID-VALVE-SET-WITH-MATCHING-MANIFOLD_W0QQitemZ7628564677QQcategoryZ50924QQssPa geNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I am planning on building several new props this year and since I no experience with air props I could use some guidence.

[Brad Green]

I have to agree with the good Dr., Madmax IS the king of pneumatics (I followed his stuff for quite awhile on Halloweenforum) Amazing! Now if we could just get him to do a tutorial on some of his projects...

[kevin242]

I was looking on ebay for cylinders, nothing much of anything with a decent stroke, but i did see this one that rotates 90 degrees in 4.45" might be kinda neat for a secondary action....
http://cgi.ebay.com/Bimba-EF1-linear-and-90-degree-rotating-air-cylinder_W0QQitemZ7629541114QQihZ017QQcategoryZ109 498QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I'm actually looking to build something like a body slinger, so I think I'd need like a 12" stroke (?) I wish there was a kit I could buy...

[sgtdrpepper]

Kevin
You might check this out. seem to have decent prices and might put a kit together for ya.
http://www.dcpropshop.com/DCPSnfframeset.htm
look under pneumatics.

[kevin242]

Hey thanks, Sarge!
I've been doing a bit of digging for something just like that. So I'm looking at a minimum of 300 bucks huh? :) Sheesh...

[IshWitch]

Thanks for the info madmax. This should be a good start for me as far as educating myself goes. It all seems sort of overwhelming at first. :googly:
This really has been helpful!

I feel the same way, I want to make so many things but am too scared to try. I don't know how to do electronics, yet, so it is quite overwhelming to try all of these things. I tend to back off and go back to making pvc frames for static props.

Okay, I'm a wuss.....
:o

[ShadyHallows]

Wow this is the thing I need help with because I'm just not getting how they work. I think it would be great to have a couple especially if I do the planned haunted house for next year! Does any one have a good how to link or could someone explain? Thanks this is really important to me!

[Dr Morbius]

This is a good primer:

http://www.phantasmechanics.com/air/index.html

I also merged your thread with an existing one, SH, please PLEASE be careful which forum/thread you post to..this is the second one from you today I had to move.

[ruafraid]

so I think I'd need like a 12" stroke (?) I wish there was a kit I could buy...

Their is a kit ! www.frightprops.com I bought one when I started out with pnuematics because I had no idea how it all worked and I progressed from there. One thing the kit did NOT come with is the mounting hardware so be sure to get the clevis for the rod end and the rear pivot mount. FYI most of the pnuematic cylinders we see on e-bay have the 1/8" ports and some have the larger 1/4" if you can standardize one one size it will help you in the long run same goes for the voltage on the valves either 24V or 120V their are other voltages but those 2 seem to be used more often. Yes the kit IS more expensive than finding the stuff on e-bay but it's one option you have. The other option is going to a local suppiler if you have one and asking for help. I have 3 and only one of them would spend any time helping me and they even gave me a fair discount because it was for a haunt. It turns out they help the other pro haunts as well.

[madmax]

I've been very busy, this past week and wont have any free time till Tues. But I will take some pictures or a vid showing step by step how to connect the air valve to the cylinder. It's really is very simple, and after you do it once it's the type of thing that will make you say.......what was I thinking, this is so simple :)

Also it doesn't have to be expensive. Sure, it can be if you buy or build like some people but you can build safe and cheap. I do it all the time, like the prop below.

This prop I'm working on was built from things I picked up for free. The only thing I bought (so far) was the air valve and 4 cans of great stuff. When it's finished I will have less than 10 total work hours and less than $50 dollars in it. That includes the pumps, cylinder, air valve, motion detector, great stuff foam and 2 bags of sand.
{I know some of you have seen this on another board}
When finished, the skulls will have red tears flowing out their eyes. A low weeping crying sound track will be coming from the stone. And the figure on top (finished but I haven't put it on the prop yet) will leap down and out about 3 foot past the bottom stone. The standing height will be 8 1/2 feet tall.

I'm building this prop from one on Scare Factory that cost $2,500 http://www.scarefactory.com/catalog/Product_Line_2006.htm

Here's a couple pictures the first one is a test of the crying skulls
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f117/wkuyoungguns/foam%20molding/crying.gif

This one shows the linkage (took less than an hour to modify a exercice machine). It was free but you can get them at thrift store for $5 to $10 dollars.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f117/wkuyoungguns/foam%20molding/darkcolor001.jpg
ruafraid is right the most common port size is 1/8. When I said 1/4, I meant tubing.