Prop re-creation

[Dr Morbius]

Let's put our heads together and see if we can reproduce this Monster crate prop! I'm sure we could build it for alot less than they are asking.
http://www.xtremecreators.com/CreatureCrateX.html
Any alternatives to pneumatics?

[ruafraid]

Doc is this gonna be a group build ? LOL Yes I agree we can build this much cheaper.

[heresjohnny]

Sounds fun Doc. Looks to me like is has a pneumatic jack, or maybe electromagnet, that shots out of the bottom of the box, probably over near one corner, then pulss back in real fast, leaving the box to fall back down. The way the box bounces around I'd say it was fairly light.

[DeathTouch]

Snap Dr! That is an awesome idea. I have always want to make one.

[RAXL]

oh-oh, why not put a midget in the box? :googly:
He can shake it around, and make all kindsa noises.:p

[BobC]

Im up for this Build as long as its going to be a TEAM build. I would like to add this to my Yard Haunt this Halloween it would fit perfectly. Later all :jol:

[Torgen]

Actually, I'm planning for something similar with my toe-pincher banger. My plans are to use a wiper motor driving an axle with an irregular cam that pushes a rod through the bottom, and another irregular cam to bang the lid against the chains that will wrap around the box. Still mulling over the exact mechanism.

[Dr Morbius]

Doc is this gonna be a group build ? LOL Yes I agree we can build this much cheaper.
I was more thinking of a brain storm kind of thing. Maybe a member wants to draw up plans and post them. Generally a discussion, and if anyone wants to actually build it, they could post a vid of it.
Im up for this Build as long as its going to be a TEAM build. I would like to add this to my Yard Haunt this Halloween it would fit perfectly. Later all :jol:
I'm not sure how we could TEAM build it, as we all live so far away from each other. OR another idea would be more contest like....But instead of judges for best prop, it would be the first to ACCURATELY reproduce it and post a vid of it running would be the winner, but since we already have a contest forum it may not be appropriate to have a seperate one here. So, that brings us back to the original idea of a general discussion and a chance to show off your replication powers!
Actually, I'm planning for something similar with my toe-pincher banger. My plans are to use a wiper motor driving an axle with an irregular cam that pushes a rod through the bottom, and another irregular cam to bang the lid against the chains that will wrap around the box. Still mulling over the exact mechanism.
That's the spirit, Torgen...Apply ideas from other props to this one.
oh-oh, why not put a midget in the box? :googly:
He can shake it around, and make all kindsa noises.:p
LOL!

[Dr Morbius]

Sounds fun Doc. Looks to me like is has a pneumatic jack, or maybe electromagnet, that shots out of the bottom of the box, probably over near one corner, then pulss back in real fast, leaving the box to fall back down. The way the box bounces around I'd say it was fairly light.
Yea, HJ it is pneumatic. Any suggestions for alternate mechs? How would you do the fog and timing and sound? Prop-1? Any suggestions for Prop-1 alternatives? Is there a cheap and simple way to acheive this? Maybe there aint, so how would you DESIGN it? I want to really challenge you guys to come up with ideas.

[Beepem]

hi i cant see it, can someone take a picture of it to show me?

[Dr Morbius]

CLick on the link I provided at the beginning of the thread. There should be a video on the the site I linked to.

Here is a pic of it anyway, although it wont show much as it's just a box.
http://f10.putfile.com/thumb/8/21714220710.jpg

[Sickie Ickie]

I wonder if an alternative version of this box could be built by using an electro magnet in a bottom platform and a ferris metal for the bottom of the crate. No moving parts for the shaking...

Also looks as if in the original the fog was continuous and only poofed out when the air entered from the bottom of the box to push it out the window at the front.

[Dr Morbius]

Good observation, Sickie! I think you're right about the fog. How would you design the electromagnet?

Also, I grabbed the audio...Click here to hear crate-11 (http://media.putfile.com/crate-11) Which I can E-mail upon request.

[DeathTouch]

Maybe a couple of cams would make it jump up and down, if you had the right motor.

[Torgen]

AHA! Found the link to the project I was remembering:
http://www.scary-terry.com/kitsinkcoffin/kitsinkcoffin.htm

Here's the "shaking the coffin" part:

http://www.scary-terry.com/kitsinkcoffin/coffinrocker.htm

[Beepem]

no, I mean the video didnt work.....im using mozilla XP

I think this could work if the motor was faster than a wiper motor but still had the strength....
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/5145/boxru0.png

what it is:

black box-the box.

red box-motor
orange thing, 2 peices of wood for the box to rock on. or aluminum..

then theres an aluminum rodish thing connected to the motor axel which is connected to another rodish thing at a point where they can pivot....then the other end of that is connected to an end of the box.

hey man im doin my best to explain it lol

though this will probably never work, i do my best.:p

[Dr Morbius]

That's OK, Keep up the suggestions!

[.id.]

Here's my rambling thoughts.....
It also looks like the crate isn't attached to the bottom piece...It can move somewhat freely in the forward/backward/left/right directions and can even twist. I'm not sure if the chains limit the movement so that it stays on the bottom piece (and keep it from flipping over) or if there is someother mechanism to limit it's lateral movement. I'd also assume that the power cables for everything come in to the box in the middle of the bottom plate and that the bottom of the box is more or less open (so that the crate can move about and not show/pinch the cables). A thought to immitate being able to have the box move latterally would be to attach a bolt to the bottom plate and then use a really slow motor (one RPM or less) to move it along the X/Z axis (turn it one and off)...though you'd need something to it from just spinning. As for the jumping, Torgen's idea would work, but it'd be very regular and likely wouldn't "jump". Perhaps if you put 2 of them in backwards from each (towards the middle, one for rocking forward, one for rocking at slightly different speeds), that would mix it up and would give you the rocking back and forth (It would even cause the crate to jump/tetter when both of them hit at the same time). Hmmm.....Lots to think about.

[Dr Morbius]

the chains DEFINETLY tether the box on the platform. Otherwise the box moves freely. Something to make it jump quickly would be sufficient to make have a random look, as the chains would pull it in different directions depending on where the box falls.

[HibLaGrande]

Hey, you could put me in a box with a pack of smokes and a bottle of tequila, would be pretty much the same thing. :D

[HibLaGrande]

I had seen the how-to for this a while back it had timers and pnumatic valves and cylinders. the chains do keep it from walking away or tipping over. They even had a delux version that had the wood on the top split open like somthing was really about to bust out. way cool.

[.id.]

Here's the one I've looked at before:
http://wolfstone.halloweenhost.com/HalloweenTech/crbovv_CrateBeastOverview.html
It's close, but it doesn't have the rocking back and forth that we're looking for.

[madmax]

The only draw back about using a air cylinder to do the shaking of the box. It will use a lot of air to recycle the cylinder over and over.

You could use a wiper motor...something like I did with my exorcist bed

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/wku_hilltopper/2005%20haunt/bed.gif

A short vid
http://www.hauntpics.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=87&pos=2

[Dreadnight]

I haven't read all the replies to this, so sorry if someone else has already covered this... but the crate can be done very lightweight so the motor or pnuematic doesn't need much grunt. If you look on my website under the Dreadnight Bay section, you'll see my toppling crate animation. Those crates are all styro and the bottom one looks about the size of the on in the video for this thread. It's textured and weathered to look just like wood right up till you touch it.

[Sickie Ickie]

I just checked out electromagnets...good idea, but waaaaay to expensive!

A blast of air from the bottom or bottom of the crate may be enough to lift it up, too.

[Beepem]

well i dont really have hands on experience with compressed air, I have read wolfstone's thing on it and I agree that will use SOOO much air!

i still like my idea :p

[slimy]

Let me take a crack at this. This is pure speculation. Why can't you run the arm of the ram ( be it a motor or pneumatic) to a slide that is fastened on the top of the box. The slide should be 6-8 inches in length ( any more than that and you may be pushing the front of the box up - exposing the mechanics). It could be a bearing or roller type assembly from a drawer or something similar. This way when the ram goes off, it would push up on a different part of the box, and make it move a little more randomly. The ram would go up, but the box could then move up and out or back depending on where the arm of the ram would hit the slide. If you can make sense of this, I think it would work. This would give a pretty random up and down ( as different parts of the box would be pushed up each time) and give us the horizontal movement ( 6 -8 inches or the length of the slide ) that we are looking for. What do you think?

[Beepem]

sickie, its not hard to make your own.....ive done it before in science class, my teacher made one strong enough to hold up a swing we could swing from......i dont think a foam box is 100lbs anyway...you could probably gte by with one running on 1 or 2 D batteries

[Dr Morbius]

Hmmm..super lightweight box...stationary ram...cheap electromagnets. All great ideas! I really like the idea of a foam box...That would solve ALOT of problems. It may need a wood frame though, for durability.

[Dreadnight]

The framework for my styro crates is PVC, glued together with the usual PVC cement, so the pieces are literally "melted" together. The frame could take anything. Attaching the foam board to the frame is the trick, and there I used Gorilla glue. I think these things would take a pretty severe beating before they'd ever come apart.

[Dr Morbius]

That's good to know..Thanks, Dreadnight.. Excellent idea!

[billman]

I have the internal pics from that xtremecrate I got from one of their ebay auctions they put out last year...

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n264/billman01/11_1_b.jpg

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n264/billman01/8b_1_b.jpg

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n264/billman01/a5_1_b.jpg

[Dr Morbius]

Coool! Thanks for the IN-sight! (groan)...

[madmax]

I see a problem with that set up....with the fogger inside of the box it's going to be hard getting to if you need more juice.

I think the fogger needs to be on the outside and a flexible hose going from the fogger and into the box. I guess you could put a latch on the top but it still probably isn't good for the fogger to be taking that type of punishment.

[Dr Morbius]

I was thinking the same thing. How much punishment can a fogger take?

[Dr Morbius]

Anyone know anything about solenoids? Could one be used in place of pneumatics?

[Beepem]

what about something with an electromagent and springs? the springs would have to be easy to push down, but still be able to hold up the box. i dno....im not sure where electromagnets were going....like how you would use them

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/3499/box2gu6.png

maybe even instead of ontop, they could be on the bottom.....different polarity faced towards the electromagnet

[Torgen]

It's what, a $15 fogger? That falls under the category "consumables" :D

[Beepem]

the fog machine would be too much weight....

put it under the box(no bottom) and have a black 'skirt' coming down from the box?

[Dr Morbius]

Foggers ARE heavy. Maybe a hose to the box?

[BTH]

I have just finished my creature crate box and installed two pancake cylinders. I will use the prop1 and the AP8 from EFX TEC to run them or should I say it. I got a program from the Parallax forum for this prop but it is setup for only one cylinder and I'm not sure I am knowledgable enough to add a second. Either way this prop is going to be one of my best. The cylinder(s) has a stroke of 2" and a bore of 2". I bought four of them off ebay for 10 bucks. They can toss my 25-30lb. box around easily. I can probably add another 20 lbs. and not see much of a difference.They are powerful! And I don't believe that they will use very much air either. Doesn't take much to fill one. Randyaz would be an excellent source of info on this project and I'm suprised he hasn't chimed in. I will post a pic of my box in my photobucket tonight and put a link to it as well. I don't have that info here at work and I struggle with computer manipulation. I can't wait for this H-day to arrive. This is the way that I am going to do it, cause I don't believe a solenoid is strong enough, and a motor is way too predictable. Great site and I hope you don't mind me lurking.

[madmax]

I have just finished my creature crate box and installed two pancake cylinders. I will use the prop1 and the AP8 from EFX TEC to run them or should I say it. I got a program from the Parallax forum for this prop but it is setup for only one cylinder and I'm not sure I am knowledgable enough to add a second. Either way this prop is going to be one of my best. The cylinder(s) has a stroke of 2" and a bore of 2". I bought four of them off ebay for 10 bucks. They can toss my 25-30lb. box around easily. I can probably add another 20 lbs. and not see much of a difference.They are powerful! And I don't believe that they will use very much air either. Doesn't take much to fill one. Randyaz would be an excellent source of info on this project and I'm suprised he hasn't chimed in. I will post a pic of my box in my photobucket tonight and put a link to it as well. I don't have that info here at work and I struggle with computer manipulation. I can't wait for this H-day to arrive. This is the way that I am going to do it, cause I don't believe a solenoid is strong enough, and a motor is way too predictable. Great site and I hope you don't mind me lurking.

Air might not be a problem if you're only using one or two air props. But when you're running 12 or more like I am....it becomes a problem. I counted 25 times that the cylinder was activated in that 25 second video. That would take as much and probably more air than 6 of my 18 inch throw cylinders firing once.

A motor doesn't have to be predictable if you use a slip linkage and a blinker fuse.

[madmax]

Here a Gif of my MIB...it's not real clear because I had to shrink it to cut the file size down for dial up users. But if you look close enough you can see how it pauses for a second or so then bangs back and forth a couple times then pauses again then bangs back and forth 3 or 4 times. The only thing I did to the motor was put a blinker fuse on it. If I used a slip linkage with the blinker fuse (takes 10 seconds to add)...you get even more of a random movement.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f117/wkuyoungguns/mib.gif

[Torgen]

the fog machine would be too much weight....



THEY did it...

[Beepem]

i also think they had a much more expensive mechanism that had a lot more power than what were trying to do, using foam instead of wood becomes pointless if you put such weight in...

[krough]

i also think they had a much more expensive mechanism that had a lot more power than what were trying to do, using foam instead of wood becomes pointless if you put such weight in...

Is the idea to build the box from foam?
One of the benefits of having a heavier box and chains is the sound it makes as it rocks around.
I built a simple MIB years ago and the most important part is the sound of the lid and chains smashing back down as the lid closes. With a foam box this would be lost.

[BTH]

Here is the link to my photobucket, and the first three pics are of my monster crate. http://photobucket.com/albums/y220/indianaholmes/
I still don't believe that a motor can create the randomness that will make this project believable. This is only MY opinion. I did a search for slip linkage on this site and come up with this thread. http://www.hauntforum.com/showthread.php?t=2344&highlight=slip+linkage
I don't understand the "slip" part. Can someone enlighten me? I really like the ingenuity this site has and if there is a chance for me to learn something new, I'm all for it. Not that I don't learn new things every time I visit.

[.id.]

Hmm.....I was thinking about the soleniods, but you'd have to reverse the direction (use a lever to convert the pull into a push) and they usually don't move more than 1". But, Madmax got me thinking about different ways to make things more random looking... You could also still use a low RPM high torque motor with electromagnetic clutch (http://www.herbach.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=HAR&Product_Code=TM91MEC1779). The controller could use a use a shaft position sensor to know when to turn the clutch on/off. The clutch will drive the lever used to lift the box. The lever would be mounted to the box and would have a bolt/rod on the other end to push the box up. Two of these assemblies back to back would be able to rock the box back and forth at fairly random intervals as defined by the controller and the position/speed of the motor.

[madmax]

Here is the link to my photobucket, and the first three pics are of my monster crate. http://photobucket.com/albums/y220/indianaholmes/
I still don't believe that a motor can create the randomness that will make this project believable. This is only MY opinion. I did a search for slip linkage on this site and come up with this thread. http://www.hauntforum.com/showthread.php?t=2344&highlight=slip+linkage
I don't understand the "slip" part. Can someone enlighten me? I really like the ingenuity this site has and if there is a chance for me to learn something new, I'm all for it. Not that I don't learn new things every time I visit.

Air is probably better for this prop and wont limit the weight of the box you can use. If your box is to heavy, you use more air or a larger cylinder.

But, you can get just as random of movement with a motor, crank and piston. Because basically the motor, crank and piston is giving the same straight push and pull that you get with the air cylinder. You could always use a relay with the motor and have the prop1 to control the relay.

But neither is giving you totally random moving every time. The air cylinder and prop1 will repeat the same movement it did the last time it was activated. Other words....if you watched the prop through 2 cycles...you get the same movement each cycle. If the prop1 was program to fire (turn the cylinder on) fire, pause, fire fire fire, pause 2 seconds, fire fire, pause .5 seconds, fire fire fire fire. It will repeat that same pattern every time it's activated. So is that really "random" movement?

That isn't the case with a motor, slip joint and a blinker fuse. Because the blinker actually stops the motor for a split second and the piston catches at different places on the bolt so sometimes you get a quick snapping pull and sometimes you get a smooth full stroke pull. The one thing you can't do with this is make it pause for a set time. But if you used the prop1 controlling a relay....that's possibile.