Greasepaint Application Questions

[Sickie Ickie]

I'll start by talking about the subject titled "Grease Paint."

I've found that if I stipple the white with my fingers before adding any other colors on top, it takes away any streaks or unevenness.

If not using a wig, but the actor's own hair, I make sure to smudge the make-up into the hairline, otherwise a mask effect tends to be created so the audience sees a hard edge to the grease paint.

Eye shadow with a brush is an alternative that can be used to create the shadows, also. No need to worry about heat affecting and melting the make-up in a tin or tube. An added plus is that it tends to help set the make up in selected areas as well, before final dusting.

I tend to do more with the talc by taking a powder blush brush and brushing the talc on until areas are white with talc, then take time brushing off the excess. I've tried thinner applications of talc, but it seems if actors can find some way to smudge make-up...they will!

I've never seen the puff method of applying the talc as shown in the clip, but I'm going to try it and see how it does for my uses. When I was into clowning, my teacher was a circus clown who taught me the method of pouring the whole bottle of talc into a sweatsock, tying a knot in the end, and then holding it over my face as I leaned back, I played that sock like an accordian. It made a mess, but planty of talc fell on your face and all you had to do was brush off the excess. Never had to worry about missing a spot! LOL

I've used tooth enamel for missing teeth, or creating pointed teeth, however I liked the idea of combining more than one color on the teeth. A great tip!

In more pinches than I like to admit to, I've used regular brown eyebrow pencil on dried teeth, and it has lasted a nice long time- however if the actor eats, it has to be reapplied. It feels a bit chunky to the actor, but it looks just fine! :D

Okay, this should give enough fuel to start conversation folks, tag- you're it! :D

[Sickie Ickie]

Edit: If using eye shadow for shadows, a nice option is to talc the white first, then shadow. This effect helps the shadow go on smoother instead of blotchy. It all depends what you are looking for.

[Bodybagging]

Icky, I agree about bringing the makeup into the hair as well, I have not done alot of greasepaint work, I do plan on taking the wolfe brothers 2 day seminar,in order to be able to pass the info on to my crew, Wolfe bros is not Grease paint persey but close enough that I am sure I can learn so techniques......
I also use a powder brush for any setting powder. Im glad you posted to the thread, ICKY!

[Sickie Ickie]

I take it you are more into prosthetics, Rob? I can see you and I may be the only ones talking make-up. LOL I've not done many involved prosthetics yet, but I'll be glad to talk what I've found out along the way.

Truthfully, I have much more experience with theatrical make-up, but am trying to cross more into film.

I've got all kinds of notes off the dvd- both things I liked, and things I'd do differently. Name any title track on the dvd, and let's talk make-up. :-)

[Bodybagging]

You are Right Icky, my mainstay is appliances, I have always been a IN YOUR FACE Character, and greasepaint has never had the effect as a properly applied appliance, with a realistic paintjob. I believe that greasepaint, airbrush and alot of other makeup forms are Great if you are not in direct line of the audience or only going to be seen for that split micro second, (drop Panel startle scare)
Ok Lets talk about the fish Girl, I thought that he incorporated a couple of techniques for a different type of makeup job, at one point in the demo I was like wow this is really good,from there he went on to add more stuff, and truthfully Im a firm believer that sometimes To much takes away from the quality of the finished product, not saying that it wasnt a great piece because I feel his segment was one of the best in the video, just that personally I would have stopped a few steps prior and called it a day. whats your thoughts?

[Lilly]

Glad you wrote this sickie..
I have used the grease paints on myself and others..
What can you do for someone that sweats (my hubby)..is it just pointless for them to use this or is there something to be used under the paint?
Or would you know or bodybagging you also of a paint product that doesn't sweat off..besides appliances? < which I think is the greatest thing for "masking"

[Bodybagging]

Lilly alot of the issues your husband is having can be handled with properly setting the grease paint in layers. I would recommend you guys trying the wolfebrothers waterbased makeup, sounds funny that I would recommend a waterbased makeup for a Sweat issue, But I havent heard of anyone complaining that they sweated it off ever!

[Lilly]

okie dokie
thanks Rob
I will check that out.

[Sickie Ickie]

Heyya Lilly. :D

I've never tried wolfebrothers waterbased makeup (although I'd like to learn more about it), so Bodybagging knows better about that brand. We have lots of actors who come into the theatre and have the same problem due to the hot lights used for stage. I think one of the worst things to ever come out of the large chain stores are the halloween water based make-up (often on a popsickle stick). They are pretty much guarenteed to come off in less than a couple hours!

For stage we recommend make-up that requires shampoo and water to remove, ie. waterproof mascara and eye liner. Greasepaint by Ben Nye, for instance, has a good long hold time as long as it is powdered properly with talc. Some mistakes stage actors getting into the craft make:

#1 Buying too cheap make-up . Often the cheaper the make-up, the more it runs due to inferior paraffin in the product melting with skin heat and light heat. This combined with sweat causes runnage.

#2 Too much powder or using corn starch. An excess of powder or using cornstarch is often an attempt to absorb sweating, but it tends to cake up and crack, making the sweat pool into the cracks and again run.

#3 Not using any powder. This guarentees sweat building on the skin and can smear make-up as well.

The solution we advise actors? Use a better quality make-up, and be sure to powder with talc or translucent (and if needed powder again lightly later).

Two other things to consider, if you feel sweat on your face - it is okay to dab your face with a clean cloth- but don't rub or run the cloth across your face. The second is consider using powders such as eyeshadow to make the contrast color with. This goes on after powdering for the first time, and a good quality won't run with sweat.

Just my 2 cents, and I'm sure others will share, too. :D

[Sickie Ickie]

Heyya BB, I think a really good greasepaint can look awesome, but it has to be on stage or under unusual conditions. Lots of the old B&W horror films used greasepaint effectively (ie. Phantom of the opera, or Nosferatu). Richard Corson has a great book for shading and painting, but again - that is on stage where the nearest audience is 20 feet away for the first row. In a close in your face situation, prosthetics are definately the way to go for realism. :) Which is another reason I am tryng to get more into film prosthtics. I am being more drawn to realism after doing make-up for upteen years for the stage. heh

The fishgal was definately a creative idea. I agree with your take on it. Sometimes the KISS (keep it simple stupid) method works better. Many times we tend to think "if this is good, more will be better"...unfortunately more sometimes makes the effect less effective. (ie. blood) Sometimes it just makes everything too busy. There's so much to try to take in, the audience just doesn't know where to look.

I liked that he just cut a hole in the baldcap for each ear. The hair is less likely to be stuck in the adhesive, and the false ear, I imagine, would flow better into the cap because of less textures to try to mesh- like skin to latex and back.

I also liked the idea of using latex to draw lines. The eyes tend to follow forms and the lines take the eyes away from the edges.

I'm not so sure I liked the sparkle eyeshadow, although I appreciated what he was trying to do. He was going more for the fantasy creature, where I think I would go more for something "realistic."

The spikes I liked, but it could have been less in number and would have more effective I think. Also, I understand why he added the sheet latex for skin on the spikes, but again, I'm not completely sold that it was necessary.

The scales were the one thing I have to admit that I would have left out altogether. Such nice coloring and blending and then an airbrush is pulled out and scales painted on and all the while I'm thinking, "Why is he doing that?" I think airbrushing has its advantages in other situations, but airbrushing scales really detracted from the make-up in this case IMHO.

On the otherhand, he may have went to such an extreme to show as many different methods of applying make-up as he could. If this is the case he succeeded, but it didn't add to the specific make-up he was doing.

Your thoughts? Tag, you're it! :D

[Lilly]

Sickie...Thanks
will take your advice into consideration also.

[Sickie Ickie]

Keep in mind Lilly, advice is like food. Everybody has a recipie, but you don't have to eat it. ;-D

[playfx]

There is a product Michael Davy has call sweat stop, its a little pricy but worth every penny. It goes on under makeup and gelatine, foam or silicone appliances.

I can give you the link if you want it.

[Bodybagging]

Ive never used it But I have used Michael Davy products before. I actually love his stuff, but cannot promote him because he doesnt like the way I do his makeup. Funny thing is I did a DEMO at a con where he was boothing, I Had Atalie done up in a FISH-HOOK Type scar, It was so REALISTIC that people were actually afraid to walk up to her at a Horror CON for fear it wasnt makeup and didnt want to offend her. Once the people in my demo found out what it was they BOUGHT TONS of his stuff, they all mentioned that they had seen him put it on people and it didnt look good, Funny how things work out.
LOL on another MD story, I tried out yet another of his product, when we first moved here, we had been here for about a month, the neighbors really didnt know much about me, anyway I was testing out the durablity of this stuff, and applied it on Atalie to wear around the house, she decided to do yard work, 3 of four neighbors seen her and were sooooooo concerned with what happened, mind you this is in broad daylight, face to face, they couldnt believe it was makeup, she said that she felt like a battered housewife trying to convince the neighbors that she actually stepped into a door. (no offense nor trying to cast humour on Battered housewives)

[playfx]

I didn't really want to promote anyone myself but he is the only one that makes sweatstop that I know.
Another trick is to just use anti-perspiant on the face, altho I find it won't last as long it is a cheaper way to go and will work just as good.

[Lilly]

Playfx
I looked up the sweat stop and it seems it is for using under the appliances which will be good if he wore those. So Maybe I will just use them on him instead of the make-up and see what happens.
thanks

[Sickie Ickie]

playfx or bb, do you have the Davy link?

[playfx]

Check your inbox Sickie

[Sickie Ickie]

Got it, my friend. Thanks! :)

What did everyone think of the dvd section called "blending techniques?"

[playfx]

Man, I gotta get this dvd!

[Sickie Ickie]

Money well spent, playfx. The tips I picked up well outweighed what I would have done differently. BB's zombie make-up gave me about 6 tips in itself and the section on costume detailing is excellant. :)

[Bodybagging]

Sheesh turn my back for a day and look what happens in here, Lilly once your Hubby goes with prothestics he will never go back, Im not sure about all over the makeup, but with an appliance, its a night and day difference. Atalie loves watching me get into makeup, because MY CHARACTER starts coming out in little grunts and groans and the makeup is applied. One of those things that Its a show in itself just watching me do my makeup..LOL

PlayFX if you are interested in Makeup this DVD is a GREAT addition to have.
ICKY, WOW 6 Tips, thats some kinda record, Im happy if I can grab one piece of useful knowledge off a dvd or seminar or easedropping!!!!!!

[Sickie Ickie]

Well, as I may have mentioned BB, I'm new to prosthetics so your info was very helpful for me. Much stage make-up rules transfer over, but there's still much for me to learn. :D

[Bodybagging]

Good News, I just signed on for Volume 2!!!!!!!!!!

[playfx]

Congrats on #2

Platgel 10 seems to be the big thing now, are you going to cover any kind of silicone work?

[Sickie Ickie]

yay BB! :D

[Lilly]

Yup BB I think you are right !
I used the appliances last yr and they are great, great ..
I have another one for 08 can't wait.
(we are not doing costumes this yr for our harleyween party)

[ScareShack]

im waiting for my makeup order to arrive and try it out. Cant wait!

[Sickie Ickie]

You will have a great time Johnny! :-)

[infoamtek]

I've beem using PAX as a base color on and around my prosthetics, then shading with alcohol based airbrush makeup. Except around the eyes. I still use a water/polymer based makeup there(just trying to be safe). The makeup stays on all day and doesn't sweat off.
BTW, not having seen this video you're talking about, I have a question. Are you really talking about real old fashioned GREASEPAINT? Not just calling creme makeups greasepaint. 'Cause if you are, get into the twenty-first century. Greasepaint went out with sliderules and puka shell necklaces. I mean, there's lots better stuff on the market now.

[PhantomMyst]

well I dont know about that..i love grease paint (rubber mask grease paint) I'm not sure if there s a different from GREASE PAINT and RUBBER MASK GREASE PAINT, but i love it! PAX is good too, but it is kinda messy...i like grease paint because it can clean up so easily. I DO agree with alcohol activaited makeup...its really reallly nice...if anyone is doing zombie makeup, I suggest getting the zombie alcohol activaited makeup palette...its wonderful!

[infoamtek]

The difference between RMGP and Greasepaint is the type of oil used as a binder. Greasepaint uses a mineral oil while RMGP uses Castor oil. The reason being mineral oil breaks down and reacts to latex, especially foam latex (will rot foam in hours). Castor oil, being a natural oil does not react to latex. PAX will never rub off like greasepaint will, even if the greasepaint is powdered. This is important if you don't want to do a lot of touchups from actors scratching spots, wiping noses, rubbing foreheads, etc... all those little things actors will do to destroy your makeup job.

[PhantomMyst]

This is true...do you know if oax is able to smooth like rmgp? Ive seen it used for a base, but im not sure if it can be done...im guessing it can be, but im not sure...

[infoamtek]

It works just like acrylic paint.