pneumatic talking skull?

[Sickie Ickie]

Has anyone tried to build a pneumatic talking skull?

[BCat]

No, I haven't tried it, but it seems too complicated. I'd just use a motor with a disk attached to the shaft, and a lever from the disk to the jaw. One rotation of the disk will cause the jaw will move up and down once.

If you use a stepper motor, you can get the control you need (speed, and number of rotations) pretty easily.

[BCat]

If cost isn't an issue, you can use servos to control the jaw and/or neck

-Brian

[1031fan]

ive never seen it done on a skull per se - but i have seen some larger animated monster faces done with it - i think thats the only way id ever animate a face - all these skulls are wonderful and great and are a tremendous showcase for your talent - but for a situation like my haunt - no one will really be able to pick up on the subtletees or realy be able to appreciate it unless they sit and get real close to it - i would however like to make a HUGE talking skull - that could get some attention - like 3 ft high or somethin - i dont think you could use the pneumatics for a realistic size skull, but i bet it'd be great for large ones - use some flow controlls here and there for the subtletees and you got a wicked piece! - riley

[Sickie Ickie]

I'd love to talk more about that theoretically, 1031 fan

[TwistedDementia]

Sorry I didn't see this earlier, I've made one in a two piece bucky. It's simple open/close but it work's great! If you want pic's I can dig it out and take some and post them for you, let me know?

[Sickie Ickie]

absolutley! I hear so much about motorized buckies and nothing about pneumatic ones.

[TwistedDementia]

I start digging tommorow!

[Sickie Ickie]

cool! I hear pneumatics are easier to learn and build than motors. (?)

[TwistedDementia]

Can be. I have a project on the back burners for skeleton hand's that play the piano and each hand requires 5 cylinders so far.

[Sickie Ickie]

lots o'moola!

[TwistedDementia]

Not to bad, I won a ebay action for 49 cylinders for like $45-55 plus shipping of like $32 because of weight.

[Sickie Ickie]

nice buy, and all worked?

[TwistedDementia]

Yes and all new in the original rapping and pre-oiled!

[Sickie Ickie]

dude! The catch was to have about 100 bucks lying around and doing nothing, eh?

[TwistedDementia]

You got me, LOL. I do have a lot of time being disabled!

[skeletonowl]

whoo I wish I could use pneumatics. A skull with that would be neat...good luck on your little quest

[TwistedDementia]

good luck on your little quest

I start the garage digging today!!!

[turtle2778]

Hey i found a hand that actually plays to mozart. It was 16 bucks at a toy shop.

[Sickie Ickie]

no way!

[TwistedDementia]

I'm still digging SI!

[1031fan]

hey TD - i would like to see your design idea for the 5 cylinder per hand organist...how big of a cylinder are you talking about? if they are close to the size i am thinking about it would be awefully hard to conceal 2 of them near a hand let alone five...another thing - understand why you would want to use 5, so you can have all the movements independant, but when it comes to all the solenoids and controllers that you would need its almost impractical seeing as if the hand is that detailed the rest of the body movements should be as well - - im sure if you thought about it enough, there would be a way to make a linkage to still get that organice and random movement of eash finger with maybe only 2-3 cylinders - just something to think about if you start making this - im guessing it probably wouldnt be a project for this year, and if not id love to help you come up with some ideas as im sure many of the others here that have extensive knowledge of pneumatics

SI - as far as pneumatics being easier...i think it REALLY depends on what type of person you are and what type of prop you are going to make - the motors and servos are very fine work - minute details within a fraction of an inch can HUGELY change the look, and even succes of a prop - this is also true of pneumatics and things such as cylinder placement but there is some slight leeway because of the strength that these these are putting out....trying to think of an analogy here...i think it would be like comparing crossstitching and sewing and knitting (i dont really know a thing about any of them - just making a generalization) to building a house - both take a great amount of skill, both have to be done correctly with precision to work with - one is just on more of a heavy duty type scale than the other - - - - - pneumatics can be very intricate as well however - heres 2 pics of some of the workings of my bed guy - and this is without all the hoses and controllers and wires

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h219/1031fan/framewithbodyform002.jpg
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h219/1031fan/independantstudy2007005.jpg

it def took a lot of planning before anything was done to insure that it would work - - and compared to some amazing props ive seen this is pretty basic - so i guess you would be correct in saying that SIMPLE pneumatics such as single cylinder popups are simpler - but we cant generalize because there are some crazy stuff you can do with pneumatics as well - it all depends on how far you want to stretch it

hope that made some sense

riley

[bourno]

Pete at HauntBots.com had his singing prop at IronStock and few other places the last couple years. Unfortunately, he wasn't there this year.

Believe he had 3 or 4 air cylinders, 1 for jaw, 1 or 2 for head and 1 for an arm movement. He used his controller to program in the movements one at a time to the audio.

With pneumatics you could smack the head around and not worry about something stripping or breaking.

[TwistedDementia]

Hey 1031, actually the hand design is for an organist, this is a little more advanced then the average home haunt build also the intire body is animated, concealment is not a problem with the organist especialy when using props, lighting and angles themed with the scene. Like bourno pointed out, the concept for the fully pneumatic prop is simple mechanics and durability. The individual fingers move up and down and slide back and forth across the keys. I incorporate the use of various things like rotary actuators for certain movments which use a minimal amount of space and a more fluid movement, also hobby airplane cable (like they use in Hollywood for masks). As far as solenoids and controllers, I use SMC manifolds and various Bimba cylinders I got brand new and cheap off ebay (as most of the pneumatic parts I use are from ebay).
Controlling the entire scene, including lighting, only requires VSA, a computer to run it or loading the sequence in to a RAPU, SCC board, relay board, and a USB to DMX signal converter and a dimmer/relay like the chauvet DMX-4. For the entire scene and the show it can produce it's not a lot of equipment to run.
I like to add a step or two to a prop to keep the people taking 'double takes', pop-up's are ok but when you add extra elements it makes thier brains more confused tying to make sence of it all during the scare process, this prop is not that type of design but is meant to be more realistic in movement for the organ.

[TwistedDementia]

BTW, Sickie, I'm still digging, I find it this weekend for sure!!!

[Sickie Ickie]

Okay, twisted. keep on keepin on! LOL

[TwistedDementia]

Hey Sickie, I've found it! I'll take pictures and post a how to for you tommorow.

[Sickie Ickie]

yay!

[Revenant]

I think things like the moving fingers and skull jaws are an excellent place for air muscles since they're very low-load applications. The muscles are super lightweight and cheap, you can even build them yourself for peanuts and they're safer than homemade cylinders if they get overcharged and blown.

[Sickie Ickie]

do you have the details on making the muscles or where to buy them?

[Revenant]

They're just inflatable tubing inside a woven sleeve. Like those "Chinese finger cuffs" toys, only a finer weave, and rubber tubing like latex or stretch silicone inside that has the air tubing attached. The air pressure swells the inside tubing, and the sleeve contains it and shortens. The ends of the sleeve are the pull points. They dont have much strength but they're total simplicity, and should last for a good while if they're not being taxed with a heavy load. I think the people who make their own use some sort of plastic woven electronics conduit for the sleeve. If you buy the commercially made ones I think they're like 18 bucks (which you can get a small cylinder for). A site I saw with instructions for building them is at http://www.imagesco.com/articles/airmuscle/AirMuscleDescription03.html

They won't power your popups or your skelerectors but for jaw-flappin' or tickling the ivories they'd be a lightweight, low-profile, affordable alternative.

[TwistedDementia]

OK... I wasn't happy with the two peice install so I'm installing it in a traditional bucky skull and making it very strong with minimal cost, and doing the how-to, so as soon as it's finished I will post it here!

[Sickie Ickie]

I'll be interested in seeing it.

[TwistedDementia]

I finished the HD jaw mount and I'm currently working on the pneumatic mount. Here's the pics of the progress so far.
http://www.twisteddementia.com/Prop_Pics/Pneumatic_Talking_Skull_01.jpg
http://www.twisteddementia.com/Prop_Pics/Pneumatic_Talking_Skull_02.jpg
http://www.twisteddementia.com/Prop_Pics/Pneumatic_Talking_Skull_03.jpg

Any question's so far just let me know.