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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
with the lantern shaping up we took a break and began working on our fog chiller. orginially we had set out to make this chiller:

http://www.shallowvalley.com/fogchiller.html

This, although very cheap to make did not cool the fog down enough for us. it seemed to rise up quickly. So, we looked at the ghosts of halloween chiller, (the first guy's friends)

http://ghostsofhalloween.com/projects/fog_chiller/

we first decided that we'd make some improvements.

He ran 18 feet of hose because his hose came in 6 foot segments. Our hose came from Home Depot and was 8 feet long. We ran a total of 24 feet of hose in the trash can proper.

Second: we worked with his idea he presented in his walkthrough, I'll quote:
I am assuming that the smaller fogger will work better than the high output fogger. This is due to the fog being pushed slower through the tubing and thus allowing more 'cooling' time in the tubes. Ultimately, the fog gets even colder and creates denser fog.
he ran close to a 1000 watt pro fogger for his. We are using a cheapo 400 watt fogger from wallmart. ($19.95 buy now, workers in blue vests are yelling at the kids in the next isle who are playing with the fake swords so they are not standing by.)

But due to his comment that slower moving fog gets cooled better. We decided to recycle our storage bin we had bought for the first chiller and plug up the holes with duct tape. Then we took the lid of the storage bin and cut two holes in it. in the center hole, the hose from the fogger pops up. The fogger sits next to the chiller, fog goes in the pipe and straight up through the icy trash bin up to the top. The shorter hose you see is the spiral of tubing that is inside the chiller, the rest of his design is normal:



Our tests in these photos is with HOT fog, there is no ice in the unit at this time.
you see fog escaping the storage bin from the sides of the lid. we may fix, this, we may not. The whole unit will be covered with a large tombstone similar in design to this one:
http://zombie.horrorseek.com/halloween/chrisscrypt/graves_01.html

Here is a shot of the fog leaving the chiller, keep in mind this is still hot fog:


I think this will be VERY promising. once we seal'er up, we'll be trying it with ice like this, then, we'll remove our expansion chamber and wire it up per the orgnial design we're working from, and see if there's a difference. more pics to follow.

Notes:
  • We've noticed a natural "vaccum" occurs through the tubing that is chilled. we're using that to assist with removing fog from the expansion chamber.
  • The center hose is slightly smaller in circumfrance, this was not done on purpose, but it may work to our advanage.
  • The center hose is higher up within the expansion chamber than the hose that leads into the trashcan. This was done on purpose to aid in air flow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
in the center is the hose from the fogger. it leads to the expansion chamber. where it then flows down the coil out of the unit.



I hope that clears things up.
 

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I have a dumb question. Why an expansion chamber? When the fog exits the fogger it is hot. why is it expanding? wouldnt it actually compress as it cools?
I understand the idea of chilling fog to make it hug the ground, but I am not comprehending an expansion chamber to aid in this.
Krough
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
well perhaps "expansion chamber" is a misnomer. We noticed when you use a fog chiller with our fog timer. the fastest it can do is a 5 second burst every 30 seconds. we watched the fog as it left and it seemed to have all dissapated before the 30 seconds was up. We also noticed that slower fog chills better. so by shooting it up into the storage bin, it slows the fog and provides a "backlog" of fog that slowly filters out the whole time.
 

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Ahh ok, sort of a holding tank. hmm, I have a Chauvet 1250 that just arrived today, it is a 1200 watt fogger, it really pumps out the fog and shoots it really far. I plan on building a chiller, but now I wonder what the best design is. If the fog is moving quite fast it seems that it wont spend all that long in the duct inside the chiller, I guess using as much hose/duct as possible will work the best.
Must go to Home Depot now and get some supplies.
Krough
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
yeah my problem with any fogger over 400 watt is that it shoots the fog too fast to get it chilled properly. heck I'm even slowing down the 400 watt.

I would use the basic trashcan design but get a bigger trashcan than the 24 gallon, or use smaller diamater aluminim hosing because then you can coil it more.
 

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And here I thought bigger was better, haha.
I wonder what the true benefit of a smaller diameter hose would be, I would think a larger diameter hose would have larger surface area and thus more cooling surface, but then again I could fit more linear feet of smaller hose in the trashcan. Im bad at thermo dynamics.

Krough
 

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The expansion chamber cools the fog some and also slows it down. When gasses are allowed to expand, they cool. When they are compressed, they heat up. This is the concept used in your air conditioner. The compressor compresses the freon (or whatever we use today) and then it is allowed to expand in the coils of the air handler. This makes the coils cold, and the air blowing over them is cooled, then pushed into your house.
 

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This looks remarkably like another fog chiller design I have seen. Unfortunately it is "patented" and therefore subject to certain problems.

However - Your expansion chamber is a great add-on but I wonder about the overall functionality in a haunt environment. You're gonna get some GREAT localized fog but what about having several of these scattered around a haunt?

Also - have you considered using some other ducting that is smoother on the inside? It would seem the rough texture of the tubing you are using might be breaking up your fog prematurely.

Also - if I understand your design correctly you are shooting hot fog into your expansion chanber first - allowing it to mix with air and then it gets into the second (coiled) tube? How do you account for loss of fog that will naturally just pass into the cooling chanmber? Since you are applying the Venturi Effect I assume the "path of least resistance" is how you are getting the fog into the coiled second tube?

Lastly - I didn't see you mention what you were using the actually chill the fog as it passes through your system. Do I assume it is like others and you're using bags of ice? Have you tried freezing small water bottles instead? They are re-usable and reloadable. Plus you can have as many on-hand as needed - just circulate the ones that have melted for fresh ones and off you go.

Great looking design. Can't wait to see more.
 

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Torgen said:
The expansion chamber cools the fog some and also slows it down. When gasses are allowed to expand, they cool. When they are compressed, they heat up. This is the concept used in your air conditioner. The compressor compresses the freon (or whatever we use today) and then it is allowed to expand in the coils of the air handler. This makes the coils cold, and the air blowing over them is cooled, then pushed into your house.
puron for home compressors....eviromental friendly crap...have to convert cars so far b/c dupont stopped making r-134a ......i belive its dupont that stopped making r-134a and r-13 what ever ::::having a brain fart i hope those are correct::::::::::correct me if im wrong....sounds like your a heating and air guy yourself :)
 

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Nope, not an HVAC guy, but I do have an engineering degree. Why I needed three semesters of calculus=based physics to be a Comp Sys engineer, I'll never know. ;)
 

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"This looks remarkably like another fog chiller design I have seen. Unfortunately it is "patented" and therefore subject to certain problems."

I believe that's still in a patent pending state, and I'm not sure if glorifying a trash can chiller is going to be patent possible.
 

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Vlad said:
I believe that's still in a patent pending state, and I'm not sure if glorifying a trash can chiller is going to be patent possible.
Agreed - but I am certain the applicant can be a real pain in the arse - this was meant more as a CYA than a comparison.

I have seen bucket chillers, trash can chillers, coolers, tubes, even aluminum gutters - name it. In the end it is whatever makes the fog cold, dense and slow.

And if anyone could devise a system that worked in the wind I'd be all set!
 
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