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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
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http://www.kstp.com/article/stories/S17817.html?cat=1

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MINNEAPOLIS (AP) - Six friends spruced up in fake blood and tattered clothing were arrested in downtown Minneapolis on suspicion of toting "simulated weapons of mass destruction."

Police said the group were allegedly carrying bags with wires sticking out, making it look like a bomb, while meandering and dancing to music as part of a "zombie dance party" Saturday night.

"They were arrested for behavior that was suspicious and disturbing," said Lt. Gregory Reinhardt, a police spokesman. Police also said the group was uncooperative and intimidated people with their "ghoulish" makeup.

One group member said the "weapons" were actually backpacks modified to carry a homemade stereos and were jailed without reason. None of the six adults and one juvenile arrested have been charged.

"Given the circumstance of them being uncooperative ... why would you have those (bags) if not to intimidate people?" said Inspector Janee Harteau. "It's not a case of (police) overreacting."

Harteau also said police were on high alert because they'd gotten a bulletin about men who wear clown makeup while attacking and robbing people in other states.

Kate Kibby, one of those arrested, said previous zombie dance parties at the Mall of America and on light-rail trains have occurred without incident. Last fall, nearly 200 people took part in a "zombie pub crawl" in northeast Minneapolis.

Kibby said they were cooperative and followed the two officers to the station where they were questioned and eventually loaded into a van and booked into jail.

"It was clear to us that they were trying to get a rise out of us," KIbby said.

Members of the group could face lesser charges like disorderly conduct, police said.

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"It's not a case of (police) overreacting." - I'm not so sure about that.
 

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****in' pigs. :finger: Too bad they weren't the real thing. They would probably be too dumb to take them out if they were. "Fire a warning shots over their heads," instead of into them. Sounds like some of the antics the cops back where I used to live would do. :rolleyes:
 

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MMMMM skin tone could use some more work, maybe a little spanish moss in the hair for effect. Definitly needs some white zombie contacts thought. I give them a B . Good try but needs some work.
 

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There is really no more freedom in this nation. Only more room for more people to 'overreact.' When I was in High School and the Columbine thing happened, I was brought into the Principal's office on suspicion that I was planning a Columbine massacre... On suspicion. The Vice Principal talked to me and thankfully, was completely understanding (and turned out to be something of a horror fan himself!). I walked away completely unscathed by the incident because it was like 2001 or something. Today? ****in' forget it, I'd be in freakin' jail! Police would have escourted me out of the building in handcuffs and the whole smear, and I wouldn't have been able to defend myself, speak out or anything.

You guys are right. These cops are just doing it for the hell of it. And people are letting this get out of hand because they want anything 'weird' to be out of their sight and mind.

In fact, I'll tell you exactly how what happened to me, happened to me : I was unpopular / less popular. If more people had known me, I would have had some defense when I complained about the incident later on. And no one would have confronted me (which could be a bad thing in some cases). But because high school is high school, the little games people have been playing in high school since the dawn of time are now weapons to use against people who anyone doesn't like or know. And given our current social system (even in 2001), the people 'on trial' for being different or whatever don't get to defend themselves and those claiming terror (in all those ways they could) are treated like glass. Let's not question their motivation! Zero tolerance says "we ain't gonna stand for no weirdness here." Not- we're going to protect and serve equally and fairly. Since there are no rules saying privacy and discretion are crimes, people should express their often unfounded and ridiculous concerns in private and with discretion. Problem is... given our current system - people think just because they're weirded out, they've got the right to have whatever they want done to others to feel more comfortable.

It's really stupid to go looking for witches in the New Millennium. The people in charge are committing the greatest crimes of all and they have the most protection. Everyone else is left to fend for themselves. Against the truly subversive bottom-feeders : the haters of personal freedom. But just because some groups of assholes feel like everyone's associations and beliefs and everything about them should be displayed on the open market - doesn't mean anyone else has to comply. Some of us are just not afraid of everything.
 

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What they're going through is not happening to just them. It's happening to a lot of other people, so the more people that bitch the better. Of course these are young people and no one listens to kids. But... I should imagine you're in the wrong place to start calling Halloween-related things "lifestyle." Because you're looking down on what they're doing, which is the same thing those same people (mainly, the cops and citizens who "reported" the group) would do if they could see this message board. It's a neat new advance in the war that's been going on forever, to call anything different subversive and therefore, dangerous.

Surely, you at a Halloween-themed board can understand that. It basically doesn't matter what they were doing or how they handled the cops. As long as no serious laws were broken, they were perfectly within their right to express themselves however they decided to.
 

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Lazario said:
What they're going through is not happening to just them. It's happening to a lot of other people, so the more people that bitch the better. Of course these are young people and no one listens to kids. But... I should imagine you're in the wrong place to start calling Halloween-related things "lifestyle." Because you're looking down on what they're doing, which is the same thing those same people (mainly, the cops and citizens who "reported" the group) would do if they could see this message board. It's a neat new advance in the war that's been going on forever, to call anything different subversive and therefore, dangerous.

Surely, you at a Halloween-themed board can understand that. It basically doesn't matter what they were doing or how they handled the cops. As long as no serious laws were broken, they were perfectly within their right to express themselves however they decided to.
I don't care if they were dressed like Zombies or were wearing 3 piece suits. If a cop asks you for ID and you get lippy and disrespectful and refuse to cooperate, you get hauled in. You're there because you were being stupid, not because of what you were wearing.
If they had simply said "Officer, here is my ID, my friends and I are on our way to a party, here, look in my bag, its stereo equipment, sorry for any trouble" they would have been on their way. But no. Like many today the police are "the man" and should be fought at any turn, because nothing is ever their fault and the world owes them and everyone is out to get them for no reason.
 

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Lazario said:
But... I should imagine you're in the wrong place to start calling Halloween-related things "lifestyle." Because you're looking down on what they're doing.
Halloween IS a lifestyle. I wear nothing but horror shirts and pretty much look like a creepy guy, my car is coated in horror bumper stickers, my pictures in my office are Halloween related, and the rooms in my house look like this:

Halloween/Horror is my lifestyle 24/7/365. It is my lifestyle.
 

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Lazario said:
because high school is high school, the little games people have been playing in high school since the dawn of time are now weapons to use against people who anyone doesn't like or know. And given our current social system (even in 2001), the people 'on trial' for being different or whatever don't get to defend themselves...
I'm in high school now and from what I see, or at least saw when school was in session (God I love vacation) people didn't make a big diffrence out of diffrent belifes and how people dressed. What you liked didn't seem to matter. Diffrent cloths, diffrent movies, diffrent music people just didn't care. They would talk about what they had in common or suggest somthing they should check out like a diffrent kind of band.

I don't think that these games of, 'lets pick out this person because their diffrent' lasts any longer then grade school... In high school its 'lets tell this person one thing while we mean another to others behind their back.'

Lazario said:
You guys are right. These cops are just doing it for the hell of it. And people are letting this get out of hand because they want anything 'weird' to be out of their sight and mind.
If people wanted weird out of sight and outta mind I woulda been gone a long time ago...
 

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Don of the Dead said:
Halloween IS a lifestyle.
I didn't say it wasn't, I was simply saying that you of all people (and not the only one) shouldn't be judging them based on it. If you weren't, fine, that's something else.

Don of the Dead said:
I don't care if they were dressed like Zombies or were wearing 3 piece suits. If a cop asks you for ID and you get lippy and disrespectful and refuse to cooperate, you get hauled in. You're there because you were being stupid, not because of what you were wearing.
You're oversimplifying this. First of all, we know why this whole thing happened anyway. I already can't believe you're being so unsympathetic to the kids, that's another thing in itself. Secondly, there is no mention of "cops asking for ID." ID for what? Permission to carry boomboxes? You need ID to wear make-up? ID to be where, and do what? There is no question of ID mentioned in this article anywhere. So, again since we know why this whole thing happened - intolerance of "abnormality" - those kids had every right to "get lippy," their rights were being infringed upon. Yes, the police should investigate if they honestly think that there is a legitimate connection between kids dressed like zombies and Older Men wearing Clown makeup attacking and robbing people in the streets of Another State. Thirdly, you seem to be ignoring what they were charged with: "possessing Simulated Weapons of Mass Destruction." Do you know what that means? You and I may know that this means knives or guns, which in a real case where the people in possession actually meant to do harm would have been used on 1 person, a couple people, maybe in a gang-related something. But to Joe Schmoe from Nebraska / Middle America, that's a psychological link to terrorism in the psyche of Middle America. Again proving that these incidents are not about kids getting lippy, it's about groups in America targeting people who are different and punishing them for it. I hope we both agree this got out of hand, but that's not because of the young people - it's because the police wanted it to. If they thought this was just kids getting lippy, they'd let them go. But no, they want to make an example of them, when that sort of thing should only be used on young people who actually did something wrong. It shouldn't be okay to punish people for being different, or even bruising the egos of some overzealous police. Surely, you can't disagree with that. If you were in this same position, I think your point of view would be a little bit different.

Don of the Dead said:
If they had simply said "Officer, here is my ID, my friends and I are on our way to a party, here, look in my bag, its stereo equipment, sorry for any trouble" they would have been on their way. But no. Like many today the police are "the man" and should be fought at any turn, because nothing is ever their fault and the world owes them and everyone is out to get them for no reason.
I haven't heard the expression "the man" used in a long time. That's not even close to being what this is about. In fact, I'm apt to ask "how old are you?" and say that your age makes you judge this as though it was happening in the '70s or '80s. Times have changed, I hope you know that.

claymud said:
I don't think that these games of, 'lets pick out this person because their diffrent' lasts any longer then grade school... In high school its 'lets tell this person one thing while we mean another to others behind their back.'
I don't know what to tell you. I felt like that myself when I was in high school. Most of the time. But out of the blue, something like what I described happening to me would happen - and you realize, things aren't as safe or cut and dry as you may think. There's no problem with trying to protect yourself from reputation damage via reminding people of your right to be who you want to be.
 

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I am positive that none of us has access to all the facts in this case and, therefore, shouldn't be so quick to judge either the kids or the police.

From the kids' standpoint, I can understand the desire to dress and act in whatever manner or fashion suits them. Their right to do this is sacred and protected. If they truly did not harrass other citizens or act in a suspicious manner, they should be left alone to be as silly as they please. But they also have to understand that carrying bags that may look suspicious to law enforcement officials (who's job is to look for these types of things) may get them stopped and questioned. They should be prepared to identify themselves and explain the situation.

As for the police standpoint....well, I'll just let N.W.A. say what has to be said, LOL.
 

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Here in MN it is illgal to not have ID on you (well, at leat in Minneapolis and St. Paul)
I've read the story in several papers here and these were all similar facts:

People called in complaints of suspicious acivity, The kids were scaring people and acting "wierd" (To me, I would have laughed if a kid in zombie make up growled at me, but do it to the wrong person and they might get scared) also the bags with protruding wires spooked people.

Police arrived to question the kids, the kids get lippy, refuse to give ID, refuse to show whats in their backpacks, so they were brought in.

What would you expect the police to do? Just let them go? What if it HAD been a bomb? Police ID'ed them, serched the bags and released them.
 

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Don of the Dead said:
To me, I would have laughed if a kid in zombie make up growled at me
I hear you on that.

Don of the Dead said:
Here in MN it is illgal to not have ID on you
Again, I must ask: to do what? Be where? Apparently you know what's going on, but when were these kids asked to give ID and what for? To carry a bag / backpack? To dress like a zombie? To be in public? When did they get ID's to dress like zombies, when they joined the circus or from their last performance art gig? Were they expected to be professional zombies, is a Toe-Tag a sufficient ID for that?

Don of the Dead said:
People called in complaints of suspicious acivity, The kids were scaring people and acting "wierd" (do it to the wrong person and they might get scared) also the bags with protruding wires spooked people.
This is where I claim the insanity defense. I feel as an American citizen people don't have the right to claim "stupid fear." For instance, if the news says that some apples are carrying mini-poisonous gas spores that will burst if the apple is fractured (when eaten or sliced) and someone's eating an apple in public when some other person screams bloody murder in reaction to what they heard on the news - we're supposed to be siding with the apple eater, not the person who would cover their kids' privates if Michael Jackson was 10 miles away and in a car so when the kids were actually in view of the car, all anyone saw was black-car and tinted windows. Because the person who freaked out was looking for Fear In the News, and some of us actually have lives to be getting on with, so we don't pay attention to Fear Propaganda. So these freaked out citizens were a bunch of idiots who the police had no business paying any attention to. It all comes down to : Knowledge and Common Sense. And no one has the right to mess with other people because everyone is so scared of everything that they think it's okay to stop treating each other like people. We're letting everyone become a potential terrorist just because we've let the Powers That Be put American faces on what we're afraid of.

Don of the Dead said:
What would you expect the police to do?
Just what I do, every single day - use their heads. Think. Rationalize. Not overreact. Treat Americans as citizens and people with rights. Investigate instead of just bust everyone. Use common sense. Understand. And see stupid fear for what it really is - unfounded.
 

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We had a situation a few years back when three teenagers were walking the streets to steal a car and they were carrying backpacks with guns. They were walking the streets looking suspicous when someone called the cops. They were dressed in goth/long coats (no intended imply here) and the cops caught up to them and had searched them. They found the guns and were immediately arrested. Here their plan was to steal a car and shoot up a school. Even though they didn't look like zombies, I think the cops needed to find out what's going on and thank goodness they did.

I think what the cops have to do is use their head and think rationally and I think in my opinion they had every right to question these kids (zombies). Just by chance, what if these kids where meaning to do some harm, and the cops ignored them. Who would be at fault then. I think it's best to be safe than sorry anymore.

Some of the kids today (I say some) give lip to everyone and everybody. I think it goes back to the respect yourself and others. I mean, all they had to do was cooperate as citizens and answer a few questions. What would it show if the cops approached them and asked for ID and the kids started giving them the lip - should the cops totally back off.
 

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Da Weiner said:
We had a situation a few years back when three teenagers were walking the streets to steal a car and they were carrying backpacks with guns. They were walking the streets looking suspicous when someone called the cops.They were dressed in goth/long coats (no intended imply here) and the cops caught up to them and had searched them. They found the guns and were immediately arrested. Here their plan was to steal a car and shoot up a school. Even though they didn't look like zombies, I think the cops needed to find out what's going on and thank goodness they did.
I have never heard of any situation like that even remotely occuring. It's really a sort of pipe dream from people who want to trust that these methods by police will bring about more positive results than negative. However, I have seen dozens of cops busting a great deal of young people for absolutely no reason other than they didn't like the way the young person dressed and acted. I suppose what you're suggesting does happen, but it's really a 1 in a million occurence.

Da Weiner said:
Just by chance, what if these kids where meaning to do some harm, and the cops ignored them. Who would be at fault then. I think it's best to be safe than sorry anymore.
"Better to be safe than sorry" is so far away from what is really going on today, it's laughable. Again, the vast majority of incidences happen to be people busted for being different. I cannot tell you the times I've seen, heard and read of young people being arrested and thrown in jail with hardened criminals just because of something they said or wrote or were thought to have said, or suggested with body language, or someone suggested that they suggested, or what was apparently suggested by the way they looked at someone or the way they dressed - both in school and on the streets. How do you expect young people to react, knowing this sort of thing is going on everywhere? Do you think the cops harassing these young people is the first time it's happened to them? How would you react if everyone harassed you everytime you didn't act the way other people told you to act? And shouldn't we still have the freedom to be ourselves? Again, for every group of young people harassed because of something like this, 1 out of 100 times someone involved has actual criminal intentions (practical equation, not factual). So, by and large, this is still a case of pointless fear ruling over common sense.

Da Weiner said:
I think it goes back to the respect yourself and others.
How cooperative were you with authority when you were young? I was the most responsible person I've ever known in my life, and even I wasn't down with authority. Why should today's youth be expected to carry so much more responsibility than previous generations? They shouldn't. This is still a time in their lives when it really matters just how much space they're given to let loose and find their identity. We need to stop penalizing them for what we're afraid of. Not all of us are afraid of everything. Why keep siding with the people scared of everything?
 

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I don't think young pepole are being oppresed these days... I think a lot of them are ****ing their lives up and starting to ruin it for the rest of us.

Of course I'm also from Canada, the land of slackness who's greatest wepon of Mass distruction is Back Bacon...
 

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claymud said:
I don't think young pepole are being oppresed these days... I think a lot of them are ****ing their lives up and starting to ruin it for the rest of us.
Okay. That's what you think. I understand that. But how many young people are you in contact with? It's so easy to sit back from a distance and judge the way young people live, when you're not the one who's out there living it.
 

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How many young people am I in contact with? I am young people. As I see it laws have gotten a little stronger for the worse. Theres a little thing I know of called the youth criminal justace act which has a crap load of rules but basicly if you are under 18 or 19 you cannont go to jail for a crime they commited and the press cannot publish any names of persons involed. So kids from my generation feel that they can get away with anything scott free because they get let off scott free.

So the police have every reason to be supisions. People think a lot of these laws are protecting the kids when their just screwing them over.
 
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